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if a timing belt on a 2.4L dohc chrysler sebring has been removed before aligning all timing marks, can I rotate cam sprockets and crankshaft manually?

Romeo, Your question has me


Your question has me wondering if you are testing us or not? The fact that you didn't post a year just further supports my testing theory. If I’m reading too much into this, (and you are not testing us)then please accept my humblest apologies. On the other hand, if you are testing us, then be prepared to be pleasantly overwhelmed :-). Since your Sebring has a 2.4, it should be from the years of 1996 to 2010. During those years not all 2.4 engines were interference engines, and some engines used timing chains as opposed to belts. So that we can provide you with the most accurate answer to your question, post the year of your Sebring. I also recommend that you Google the terms “Interference Engine” and “Free Wheeling Engine”. It makes for a very interesting read, and I’m sure you will learn very much.

sorry i sould have given more

sorry i sould have given more info,, my car is a 2003 chrysler sebring,with a 2.4 liter dohc.
I am have read about “Interference Engine” and “Free Wheeling Engine”,and what had happened is the timing belt had lost a few cogs and caused it to slip or jump time. so i need to know if i can rotate the cam sprokets,and crankshaft manually to align the marks to the correct position and install a new timing belt. I also need to know where all the timing marks need to be for the correct alignment

romeo, Thanks for the update.


Thanks for the update. The engine in your Sebring is "non interference". The link below will answer all your questions. Good luck, and let us know if you need more help.

I have been on that site

I have been on that site already and have printed out all of the info,I have done all of the requirement's and after completing all the proper step's ,I started up the engine,but it does'nt run properly.I now have a "ping" when I accelerate,also it is idling too low now and the check engine light is on now.
the other problem I have is a overheating I have put a new radiator,,thermostat,,and waterpump when the new timing belt was installed,I have bleed the coolant system and is still boil's over.
These repairs are starting to add up,I am at wit's end and right about now I feel like junking this money pit.Maybe you can give me a little hope.

sounds like possible head

sounds like possible head gasket leak - have a carbon dioxide test done on your coolant to verify.

Romeo, On the running


On the running problem. If you haven't already, double check the alignment marks. It's easy to get one or both cams off a tooth. Make sure the marks are dead on (close is not good enough). Check that you haven't left something disconnected. Also check the computer for codes and post them here. Most parts stores will do this free but I don't want you driving it up there with the overheating problem. If you don't have a scan tool see if you can borrow one. Some of the parts stores will loan them out. You might have to give them some collateral. It's dirty but I've heard of people buying them at a parts store and taking them back for a refund (check the return policy) because they didn't seem to work right.:)

On the overheating problem:
Are you sure that the air is completely bled out?
Have you checked for flow to see that the new water pump and thermostat are working properly?
Did it overheat before you started this project?
Are the cooling fans coming on?
Does the radiator have good flow?

Jerryh20 mentioned the dreaded head gasket problem and having it tested. You can buy a block tester at the parts store. They seem to work pretty good if you don't have access to a gas analyzer.

Please don't let her overheat anymore. If you don't have further problems you will if it continues to overheat. Post back here with your codes and what you found on your inspections.

I have doubled checked the

I have doubled checked the timing marks and they are on the money,and yes the new t-stat and waterpump are circulating water also the fans are working properly, with good flow in the radiator. As far as the bleeding,I opened the bleeder and added water untill I got a steady stream out the bleeder then tightend it up. And finally, YES it did get hot before all my problems started, but the temp guage never got to the red zone, as it stands right now the car takes about 2 to 3 hours before it starts to overheat,and as soon as it overheats the guage go's into the red zone and the red idiot light lights up, which had never happened before.The other thing I noticed is that it has no heat, when I try to heat up the interior of the car,I never checked for heat because I just bought this car in May and there was no use for heat. If it does turn out to be the dreaded head gasket,is that a huge job to tackle?
I have alot of expierence with car's,but that was before front wheel drive and electronic brains and computers.
I will get a unit and get some code's ,but that may be in a day or two I will post them as soon as I get them,thanks for all of your help,you been very helpfull.

Hey Romeo, I am working on a

Hey Romeo, I am working on a 2.4 dohc right now. Did you ever have any luck with the sebring you worked on?

romeo, There's no doubt your


There's no doubt your a skilled individual, but even a skilled person can miss one or more things. In reading both of your last postings, what you are missing here is blown head gasket or cracked head or both.

so it comes down to pulling

so it comes down to pulling the head,I been to the autozone repair site and got some info, Well here is my question, hope somebody can help me out, in the head remove & install section for a 2003 chrysler sebring 2.4L it starts out with the removal for a 2.0 single overhead cam then it jumps to 2.5L, which is the 6 cyl.
my 2.4L ia a DOHC 4 cyl.,,here is the million dollar question..,,Is the head of a 2.0L the same as a 2.4L,and if they are, is the torque sequence also the same?
That site show's the the 2.4L DOHC in the Camshaft Remove & Install section,but not in the Head Remove & Install section

Romeo, Just looked at that


Just looked at that site. That's an obvious error on their part and I wouldn't trust anything it said. They don't even list those engines for that year Sebring. Best thing you could do is to get yourself a vehicle specific repair manual. I know it's gonna cost you a little (usually $15-$25) but if you're gonna do your own repairs on this vehicle it will come in handy today and in the future.

As stated before it sounds like you are dealing with a head/headgasket/block problem but have you confirmed that there are exhaust gases in the cooling system? I believe that problem likely exists but I personally don't like doing any parts replacement (much less pulling an engine apart) until I know for sure that I'm headed in the right direction.

Either way I think a manual is your best bet.

I have been trying to locate

I have been trying to locate a repair manual for that spacific engine, Haynes offers one and Chiltons offers one.
Which one would help me out the most?

Everyone is gonna have a

Everyone is gonna have a different opinion on that. Mine is that no single data base (computer or paper) has all the info and I like to compare them. Both of those are comparable to each other. You've probably already done so but you can call around to parts stores to see if they have one or can order one quickly. This site sells them as well

A few of you guy's have

A few of you guy's have mentioned having a carbon dioxiod test done, as an electrician we use a similar tool when working underground, we call it the "sniffer", it can detect co2, natural gas, and other harmfull gases.
Do they make one for auto uses,if so can I rent one and where or who would have one?

romeo, As far as pullin the


As far as pullin the head invest in both the Chiltons and Haynes manuals. Also check with a few library's for the manuals, that way you won't have to pay for them. Furthermore I have even found shop manuals in libraries, so while at the library ask about the shop manual. A shop manual is the best source of information. At this point a chemical analysis for the presence of combustion gases in the coolant is the way to go. Two ways to do it appear below.

Take a sample of coolant to a professional radiator repair shop and have them analyze it.

Buy a "block tester" kit from an auto parts store, and use the kit according to the instructions. Post the results from using the kit and we'll help you further.

I have started to attempt

I have started to attempt this project,and so far I have found that my timing marks are no longer aligned,could this have been my rough idling and engine ping that i heard after replacing the timing belt and would this also cause overhaeting?
Also can I remove the belt and rotate the camshafts untill all marks line up properly?
It is the camshaft that is closest to the firewall, which I believe is the one that operates the exhaust valves,so if the valves are not working properly,could that cause overheating?

Romeo, Yes this can be the


Yes this can be the cause of a rough idle, engine ping and overheat. You mentioned 2-3 hours before the overheat occurs. An exhaust timing problem could easily drive temps up over that period of time. Big Block has already stated that this is a non interference (free wheeling) engine. Get that thing back on the road and see what happens. Keep your fingers crossed since she has been overheated. To answer your earlier question about the "sniffer". Yes you can buy an exhaust gas analyzer that can be used for a number of different things but they are kind of expensive. You can buy a block tester kit at the parts stores for much less.

romeo, Just a reminder. The


Just a reminder.

The 2.4 is a free wheeling engine. The intake and exhaust valves are on opposite sides of the combustion chambers and are set at angles in the cylinder head. When the timing belt fails and the two camshafts turn independent of each other (without being in proper time with each other), some of the intake and exhaust valves will collide and bend.

Thank's for that info,I

Thank's for that info,I really did not to take the head off unless all else fails. Tomarrow mourning I will realign my marks and follow all the steps from the Hayne's book,get the belt back on and fire it up.I also bought a block tester so when it warms up I will also run that test.
Let's hope for the best.

Romeo, When you go to put the


When you go to put the belt back if you have any large binder (file) clips you can use them to hold the belt to the cams. They act like an extra couple of hands. Good luck. Let us know.

I have reset the timing marks

I have reset the timing marks and tripled checked,crank is on the money as is the camshafts marks.I tryed to start the engine but it would not fire. As I was turning the engine over my neighbor said he could smell gas in the water,he then lit his bic lighter over the t-stat and it actually lit up like a methane pipe in a garbage dump. I then started to pull it all apart again when i got to the exposed timing belt i rechecked the marks one more time,they were still on the money.Another friend came over and I wanted to show him,so i tryed to start the engine without the power steering or the alt. and the bottom pully,as i thought I may be taking the head off and the engine started. I shut the engine off and put it all back together,but it wont start again,and again the odor of gas is back my friend made a sugestion that maybe the crank is 360 out and that it could be on a compression stroke when the exhaust valves are open. Could that be true? I have never heard of that,but maybe you could shed some light on my new problem.I wanted to get this running so I could do the block test,but every thing has come to a halt as I can't get it running any longer

Romeo, No offense to your


No offense to your friend but the crankshaft doesn't know what a compression stroke is. It pushes pistons up. It pulls pistons back down. If the timing marks are on then they are on. You will need to do more investigating as to why it wont start.

Check the basics:

Spark (maybe water fouled plugs in this case)
Exhaust back pressure

You mentioned the flame in the T stat. I will say that coolant is flammable. Yeah yeah I know that sounds like a bunch of crap. It's not written on the label but STRAIGHT coolant (all three main types) will burn (especially in a mist). I've won wagers proving this fact before. However, when it is properly mixed with water it should not (or atleast the flash point is very high).

You may still be able to perform your block test though. If (and I said if) there is enough "combustion chamber gas" in the t stat housing to burn there is surely enough to check with the block tester if you are using an HC tester. Check it right there at the housing while cranking the motor over.

Well,I did the deed,and

Well,I did the deed,and pulled the head. And to tell the truth,it really was not as hard as it seemed. The only bolt's that broke was the 4 on the heat shield to the exhaust manifold. I am sure I can purchase a new heat shield at the dealer. As most of you people suspected,it was definitly a bad head gasket.The gasket was breached in between #1 and #2 piston. I am assuming that after I had repaired all the other minor leaks in the coolant system,it amped up the head gasket leak.I will replace the head gasket and hope for the best.

Romeo, Good deal on your find


Good deal on your find and good luck on your repair. We have faith. Let us know how it goes and don't go cheap on the gasket set.

Sorry,I haven't posted my

Sorry,I haven't posted my results sooner,but due to Hurricane Irene I lost power. I am back and proud to say that after all repairs done,the Sebring runs and performs better than when it was purchased. I gave the car to my daugther,and she love's it.
Thank's for all the help. I have recommended this site to all my friends.
Again I say THANK'S and I mean that in a big way,not only did I save a ton of cash by doing all repairs at home,but I also honed my skills on 2000 or newer cars.

Romeo, Glad to hear from you.


Glad to hear from you. Great news on your repair and we're glad we could help. Hope everything turned out ok for you with the storm. How did those heat shield bolts turn out?

Hello Romeo, My name is

Hello Romeo,

My name is Helene and Big Block 409 is my boyfriend. He's away for two weeks, so I'll be filling in for him. I'm glad to see that Big Block and the others here were able to help you. Thank you for recommending our forum as well. Just a reminder,that when it comes to the availability of parts and accessories and the LOWEST PRICES, you can't beat Auto Zone.

Rockitman, We can help you,


We can help you, but to avoid any confusion, and so that your question gets all the time and attention it deserves, you gotta start a new and separate thread of your own. I’m sure you don’t realize it, but you’re askin your question at the end of a thread that was started back in August of 2011. When you start your own thread and post your question be sure to tell us the:

Year, make, and model of your vehicle.
The current mileage on your vehicle.
Exactly what the problem is (and or) what you are working on.